Read the essay. Comment initially on one question below; follow up on a classmate's posting regarding the other question.
From 17Nov14 Inequality, Unbelievably, Gets Worse - NYTimes.com
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/11/17/opinion/inequality-unbelievably-gets-worse.html?referrer=
Q1: Are you concerned about the growing disparity between the rich and the poor? Is there something to be done with respect to business to reduce the gap? *Should* those measures be taken? Explain.
Q2: How does this relate to Sennett's overall thesis?
I am concerned about the growing disparity between rich and poor. There are a few ways to try and correct this disparity. Is a flat tax where everyone pays the same dollar amount because everyone is equal as a person? Or is a percent the best way to go since that would best serve the greater good? I think that the rich should pay a higher tax amount because they built their wealth off the sweat of those below them and have a moral responsibility to help those people that got them to where they are.
ReplyDeleteSean, I too believe in a flat tax and that it would benefit everyone. My concern is that they would still find a way through their "wealth" of money and the lawyers and accountants to circumvent the tax.
DeleteI do agree with your concern, however,do you think all wealthy individuals do not work hard and did not fight and sweat to be where they are today? Yes, there are some inherited money and businesses that may have created a smoother transition, but definitely not easier. I don't disagree that they have some moral responsibility, but I think there should be other creative avenues other than just taxation.
DeleteYes I am concerned about the growing disparity between rich and poor because I believe our economy can be twice as well as it is if the societal evils that has and is currently dividing our country. These evils have killed dreams and visions , ideas and inventions that people of color were gifted with to contribute to the growth of our country. The disparity in question is the core of the evils that I am arguing.
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DeleteMr Devereaux,
DeleteAs usual I agree with you! You are a wise person.
IMHO It's evil and down right Un-American...
Nuff-said
I took Sennett's thesis as the evolution of capitalism. It seemed as though his perspective was derived from a Marxist point of view. I can understand the scientific cause of Karl Marx theory but I was raised up at a time where he was shown as the enemy that taught communism. To know that his principles were used to build our nation is double standard.
ReplyDeleteWow great thoughts Larry. I do have to agree with you on the Marxist point of view because it focuses on the development of craft.
DeleteLarry, I see your point especially considering not only our generation, but that of our parents. I think society according to Sennett has become exactly what we see - instant gratification, never satisfied, always looking for the next best thing, no matter the financial or material cost.
DeleteI can defiantly see the Marxist ties however Marx did not intend for anything like communism that was a twisted version of what he proposed to be purely hypothetical. I agree Lorain that is the sad trend that we are on, but some good could still be taken away from this new style. It causes technology to grow and evolve at alarming rates and we grow ever closer to major breakthroughs due to the never satisfied nature.
DeleteAre you concerned about the growing disparity between the rich and the poor? Is there something to be done with respect to business to reduce the gap? *Should* those measures be taken? Explain.
ReplyDeleteYIKES.... This is a hot button for me........
Yes I am extremely concerned about the disparity between the haves and the have-not's. This is something that has bothered me, and has been a main focus of mine for many years. Steven Rattner mentions the most recent elections, and the results from the elections lead me to believe that the disparity is going to grow even greater. To put it bluntly, old white people scare the "ish" out of me. Because of this election these people are now going to be in control of Congress and the Senate. You can guarantee that this legislation will do everything they can to redistribute as much wealth as they can from the poor to the rich. The good news is that by 2020 minorities will be the majority. I can only hope that our non-white countrymen will get out and vote instead of sitting at home like they did in the last election. Shame on you.... Non-white populations are also expected to be distributed more evenly around the country. Their populations currently occupy the coasts and the southwest. The electorate will more accurately represent the population as the population shifts. I hope that minority owned businesses will also increase with their populations. The recent economic downturn created a huge vacuum in the middle class. The rich got richer and the poor got poorer. Middle class and poor investors had to sell off investments at painfully low prices. Guess what??? The rich gobbled them up at bargain prices. The middle class not only lost their money, but they missed out on the opportunity for exponential growth that occurred during the recovery. Because of the sell off, very wealthy old white people now own the majority of businesses as well as the holdings in publicly traded companies.
As I previously hinted, I think the gap can be reduced as minority owned businesses increase. Wealthy business owners also have to be willing to redistribute their money to younger generations. Business expansion and capital improvements to U.S. businesses is an absolute must. Tax policy needs to reward U.S. businesses for reinvesting in this country. This is how it used to work. The rich and businesses are sitting on mounds of cash (much of it is hidden offshore), and most of their investment is in the market not capital improvements for business expansion.
Long term growth is where it is at. We need to see major reform in executive pay. It is too closely tied to short term stock price. We also need to see a rejuvenation in American pride and spirit. The old rich white people continue to act like this country owes them something, but the new minorities are showing up with a hunger to succeed.
I'll get off my soapbox. Let's just say that boomers need to let the money go. They had opportunities to make the money in this country, and it is their duty to give the same opportunities to the younger generations. Warren Buffett supports this theory, he loves this country, and he is one my heros.....
I hope no one was offended by my old white people comments......
Well said Mr. Bragg I could not help but to agree with you...We are in need of a whole new group of Americans in politics--Keep doing the same "old" thing and we are going to get the same results. Diversity is the key to help revamp or improve our government, innovative people with bright ideas is what we need.
DeleteI agree with much of what you've said, I also think Warren Buffett is a great man.
DeleteI can't help but think to say "insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting...." well, we all know the saying! I agree, the wealthy need to be wiling to reinvigorate this country by letting other younger, open minded, diverse and brilliant people make things happen!
Are you concerned about the growing disparity between the rich and the poor? Is there something to be done with respect to business to reduce the gap? *Should* those measures be taken? Explain.
ReplyDeleteI have to be honest I hate vocalizing my viewpoint on things like this because some people go crazy, but here we go....
Of course I am concerned about the growing disparity between the rich and the poor. But, I am happy of the statistic that the top percent is growing in America. To me that means another person made a dream a reality..congrats to them!
Why are we acting surprised that the lower income is growing??? I mean hello!!! Our economy took a huge hit in the early 2000's with many people losing jobs, savings, housing etc. Companies collapsed which means people became unemployed and the job market was scarce. Many people (like us) have gone back to school in order to remain competitive in the job market, but in turn have accumulated loads of debt to do this :(. On top of this the government wants to tax us like crazy and lessen our benefits.
I do not have the proper knowledge on taxation to say what should be done. I truly do not know. But, my opinion (whether or not it is a great one or not!) is people making more money should be taxed at a higher rate. Those taxes should strictly go back to the people in the lower tax bracket somehow. I feel if we knew they were going to those less fortunate then that is a win-win for everyone.
I definitely do not feel educated enough on this topic. I have to agree, voicing my opinion is probably more harm that anything. Just to play devils advocate, why should richer people be taxed more? Would this cause less people to be innovative and not want to try and further our country?
DeleteAre you concerned about the growing disparity between the rich and the poor? I am concerned about the growing disparity. The old saying the rich get richer and the poor get poorer seems more true than ever. I understand the more affluent can afford the best lawyers and accountants who help shelter and protect and give sound prudent guidance for continued smart investments. It is unfortunate for the people in the middle and the lower pools who seem to carry the major burden of keeping the economy stimulated by creating opportunities for small businesses and paying the debt burden through taxes.
ReplyDeleteIs there something to be done with respect to business to reduce the gap? Ideally having a flat tax would seem to make sense, but settling upon a bracket would be difficult, and those same advisor's would probably find a loophole to benefit the wealthier class.
*Should* those measures be taken? Explain. I do feel that those on capitol hill should be looking at those types of measures and implementing some new tax law, but unless it benefits their constituents and their wealthy pockets (which defeats the purpose), I do not see the senators and congress doing anything without a stale mate.
Q2: How does this relate to Sennett's overall thesis? I think it relates very well to Sennett's thesis. We are a society and economy of "me" generation - what's in in for me, it's disposable, open to constant turmoil and change - if it's old and obsolete, just buy a new one. This is what helped put the U.S. in the place we find ourselves after the recession. The fact of the matter is the wealthy class (for the most part) has always been in that role of getting richer and taking advantage.
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ReplyDeleteThe growing disparity is often felt in the middle class and often more so in the lower income classes, As we have all heard at least once in our life time "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer" seems to be coming to life more and more. I think the 2008 recession has a lot to do with this. A lot of small business owners felt the effect and went out of business. The Government took taxes from the middle class and jobs from the lower classes. While bailing the large corporations out of their debt in return making the entire economy suffer. The Government should be trying to create an environment where everyone can succeed and have different opportunities to improve their current situation. Unfortunately because of this we saw this gap grow. What I do see as a problem is that the older population not wanting to let go of control. The younger population appears to be lazy but is it really that we can not gain the control from the baby boomers?
ReplyDeleteIs there something to be done with respect to business to reduce the gap? I am not really sure how to answer this question. Should we give employees more say in the final decisions and incorporate the shareholder theory more regularly. Should top level executives pays be reduced? What will this really do? Should we as Americans value the small businesses more and support those that can not “hide” their money oversees or find the loop holes of the tax system? I am not an expert of this topic nor do I try to be but I do think we should find more ways to reduce the gap.
I’ve been intrigued by “the growing gap between rich and poor’. I believe that gap is growing because we have so many lazy, low information citizens that drag the stats down. People have stopped working because it easier to put your hand out than WORK. I actually proved this back in 2005 when I was tired of hearing people say how hard it was to find a job. I left my day job and started out on a Monday evening visiting multiple stores and completing applications. At 10pm that night, I walked into a Fox & Hound, spoke with the GM and was hired on the spot for my second job, which I started that very weekend. I understand that there is a lot of old, inherited money and not everyone has the golden opportunities/networks that a wealthier person may have but you have to move forward like you do. And isn't the rich and wealthy the ones that are building more companies and create the extra jobs we need? We need to quit questioning the position and work hard towards our own growth. If you are a dishwasher, be the best dishwasher you can and create your goals of improvement and a plan B if something doesn't work out the way you hoped or expected.
ReplyDeleteAlso, with so many people out of work and either unemployed, under-employed or no longer looking for work, is this “income gap” any surprise? And what exactly will raising the minimum wage do to correct that? I think a better route would be to raise the educational standards for graduation? How about offering more kinds of trade school alternatives for all those who don’t want to attend college? How about unemployment benefits that are paid through an employer who provides a job? How about re-thinking what we can do rather than trying to divide people by engaging in class warfare that accomplishes nothing but resentment?
*Correction to the year, it should be 2008. Thanks.
DeleteHollie, good points! Why not increase the standards for graduation!?!?! Although my first thought was those who are interested in excelling in high school probably meet today's standards well in advance to their senior year, except the classes that are offered only to seniors (4th year of English, etc.). So maybe this would only increase crime, welfare recipients, and people who just do not care! However, I do like your idea about providing more trade school alternatives. I feel like this would help those students that do not care and maybe get them engaged. This would provide necessary skill sets to young capable workers and help them get further in life. I have always told my children that this will be an avenue that they investigate. I believe it gives them the extra inch they would need.
DeleteI agree Hollie, nicely put, far less rant-like than mine. This topic irks me, not so much because I don't want better for people, but because I don't think it's the governments job to "save" them because life isn't "fair." People need to realize nothing in life is free, and if our government would stop telling them that it is maybe they would ways to support themselves. I want to end hunger and poverty just like everyone else, but expecting the government to fix it is laughable. I like all of your ideas at the end there.
DeleteSo I take a GIANT step back from government sticking their hands in businesses. Do I think that the disparity between rich and poor is alarming yes. Do I blame it all on the rich or the businesses? No. Do I think people who have built their dream and put their blood sweat and tears, and essentially their lives into a business should be punished because someone feels they aren't being treated fairly?" No. So it is time to raise minimum wage, but with that all the other wages would need to raise too, if we are to be "fair" right? How does this fix the gap? I am all for upping taxes on the wealthy especially because our tax brackets are antiquated and need to be adjusted. However, whenever the government starts sticking their noses into our business and hands into our pockets I get very nervous. We are simply one socialist leader away from losing our rights. I am a huge fan of Walter Williams and really enjoy his "hold everyone accountable" attitude. I take real issue with our societies "new age" attitude that everything should be "fair." That's crap really life is not fair, people get cancer and die, people lose their jobs, they find new ones, they fall down and get back up but none of it is fair, and believing that the people in Washington are going to "fix" things so that everything is "fair" is plain silly. They can't fix anything, and asking them into our businesses seems risky at best. We have created this generation of people who think that they are entitled to everything, that they should be given everything just because they exist. We have third, forth, and fifth generation welfare recipients, because that is how they grew up. They don't know any different, this is how their parents lived, so that's how they live. I am not saying I don't want to help people, and that I don't want better for them. In fact it's just the opposite, that's all that I want is for poverty and hunger to be whipped out. But I don't think it's the governments job to make that happen. The ideas that they are putting forth are not lifetime solutions they are quick fixes that in the long run won't make that much of a difference. Real reform would have to come with job creation and accountability. Why not give incentives for job creation, especially creation of jobs that pay above minimum wage? Why not raise the day care voucher level so that parents can go to work and make more money to support their children without having to worry that they won't be able to find affordable day care? I am not saying that the gap isn't ridiculous and that it shouldn't be fixed, but any real fix any real change won't come from our government, it will come when people/businesses realize that it is far more efficient and effective for our economy and our country to have the majority of its people employed in jobs that actually support their families. People need to find the pride in a job well done, in real work, that was lost amidst the race for the "American Dream." I have been in some really terrible situations, some of which I had no control, and some of which were because I made stupid choices. I don't blame others for these things, I just pick myself up and move on. I am killing myself for this degree to make sure I have the best chance possible in the future. The fact that there are colleges who are giving the same degree to people who barely show up to class because they only have to have a D average to get that government check for school, pisses me off. It degrades the work I am doing, that all of us are doing, and it's not fair, but you don't see the government doing anything to change that.
ReplyDeleteAre you concerned about the growing disparity between the rich and the poor? Is there something to be done with respect to business to reduce the gap? *Should* those measures be taken? Explain.
ReplyDeleteYes, I am concerned about the growing disparity between the rich and the poor. Something should be done and needs to be done to help close the gap. I respect that the rich have worked hard to earn their riches. But a raise in taxes really could help the economy. And as Hollie pointed out, the unemployed or under-employed are not helping to contribute to fixing this gap. That is why I am here going to college to get my degree. I have been under-employed for the last several years simply because I do not have a piece of paper. This has pushed me to become a business owner, pursue my degree, and not wait to be employed by someone that will pay me what I'm worth. I'm working toward building my business so that I determine my worth. If that means I'm going to pay higher taxes than those that are currently in the tax bracket where I'll soon be, then so be it. I'll pay the taxes and know that in doing so, I'm helping to close the gap.
Q1) I'm very concerned about the gap between the rich and poor. In today's society the one's who are making it or in this case the rich are able to do it for the reason that they have money to invest or came up with an idea to make money and built off of it. It's not that the poor are necessarily not as brilliant, or don't have the education that the rich does it's more about how they go about applying themselves to move the needle forward. We live in a go-go world where you can truly do or be anyone or anything that you want, as cliche as that sounds it's true. We're given all the tools to be successful it's the lack of drive and work ethic that differentiates the rich from the poor. We're going to see that this is going to continue to increase due to technology the one's who are creating their new business ventures are doing it with little to no overhead therefore they don't need to many employees. I think that with gas prices continuing to decrease and if we we're able to put together better tax regulations which could produce more jobs then that gap would slowly start to narrow.
ReplyDeleteGreat points about how the rich got rich and why the poor are poor or remain as such. Technology needs to be embraced - agree. New business really are being created with little to no overhead and don't require a large payroll to succeed. Those willing to work hard, that have grit, and great work ethic will succeed (I'm counting on it).
ReplyDeleteThere has been a growing gap between the upper class and the lower class for some time now and it will be difficult to stimulate growth in the lower class. Due to lack of funds to create growth. We live in a date and time where our currency is continuing to deprecate at alarming levels and inflation on the flip side is going up as well. When the cost of living raises and wages do not the working class takes it very hard. How are we to afford items we are used to purchasing and build up our wealth? especially when no income can be spared. I think the system we have created is on the verge of collapse and we are desperately trying to save it.
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